12 Jan 1915
I am here, Helen:
You must not write to these spirits as we have told you – Yes he said that he knew you on earth and wanted you to help him. I see that he has gone to seek Mr. Taggart, but I don’t think that he will be much helped. Yes you may be right, you certainly have a way of accomplishing things. I never thought of that. Well, I will go and see if I can find them, and make them come here, and write you what I hear.
They are here:
Mr. Taggart tells Mr. Harvey that you told him that the way to get out of this condition of darkness and unhappiness is to pray to God, for His Love to enter into their hearts, and believe that it will, that if he will only be willing to have it come into their hearts, it will, but that he has not yet been able to believe. But Mr. Harvey says, that when he was on earth, he was a strict Catholic and that he often prayed something like that and attended to his duties, and even when he made his will, he left some money for the priests to pray him out of purgatory, but all their prayers together have not helped him, and he don’t believe that there is any God to whom a person can pray and from whom he can get relief – so that when you talked that way to Taggart, you were merely trying to mislead him as the priests did him. But Mr. Taggart says: George you are wrong there, for our friend does not merely say pray, but he prays with us and for us and seems to believe with all his heart that there is a God and that he will answer prayer. So I am not so certain that there is not a God and one who answers prayers, I am going to try to pray and believe myself and I advise you to do likewise.
Mr. Harvey says:
Taggart it is all nonsense, and if that is the only way we can get out of this condition, we never will be any better than we now are – so you need not tell me of God and prayer.
Mr. Taggart says:
George, I have seen the effect of this prayer on some spirits and I know that they have been made more beautiful and happy, and even Mackay is commencing to say that he sees light ahead and has felt some strange influences come into his heart as he said a prayer, which he promised our friend to say. Now what is the use in your being pig headed and say that there is no God, when you don’t know anything about it. I tell you though, there must be something in this belief or I would not see so many happy spirits around us. Be a man who can keep his mind open to what he sees and the reasons therefore may come to you. Let us not become hardheaded in this matter. As you were so easy to believe on earth what your priests told you about purgatory and the hells and the necessity for you to pay for prayers to help you out of purgatory, why can’t you try to believe a little when the same thing is told you without your having to pay for it? I am going to try my best to believe and if you know what is best for you, you will follow suit.
Mr. Harvey, says:
Taggart, what is the use of being fooled twice, once is enough for me. Priests are here with me and suffering more than I am, and when I ask them why don’t they pray themselves out of purgatory, they say: “To hell with prayer.” Now how am I to believe anything that is told me about prayer or God?
Mr. Taggart says:
George, Let your priests and their sufferings and their cursings pass out of your mind, and listen to me for a moment. When I came over, I was in great darkness and despair, and believed that there was no possible help for me and that I must remain in the condition of darkness that I found myself in, but one day I was called to meet our friend by his father, and when I came where he was I found that Mackay was there also, and then we exchanged greetings, and wished each other happiness. But I found that there was no happiness for me and I told our friend that I was anything but happy; and he said believe in God’s Love and you will soon be, and I said, who is God and what is His Love; and then he explained to Mackay what that love is, and I heard it all; and then I tackled him and told him that God was a myth and prayer was nothing but the wish of a man and went no higher than his mind.
But he would not agree with me and we had an argument right then and there, and I tell you that while he did not convince me that there was a God or any efficacy in prayer, yet it made me think and wonder if I could be wrong and he right; and before I left him, not only Mackay, but myself promised that we would try an experiment in the nature of prayer and we have been doing it many times since, and I tell you, that while I am not yet convinced that there is a God, or that prayer to Him will take us out of our awful conditions of suffering and darkness, yet I have felt many strange sensations, and at times, some little feeling of happiness, which I had never felt before; so you can see, I would be a fool not to try and get this relief, if I possibly can. And I want to tell you George, that if you are willing to make the effort with us we will be glad to have you come. Of course you need not believe if you don’t want to, but just come and join with us in our experiment and you will soon realize that there is something operating that you cannot account for. Mackay is now feeling very much happier he says; and I believe that he will soon believe in this God and his love that our friend told us about; at any rate he is commencing to improve in his appearance, and I attribute it to trying the experiment I told you of. So what is the use in holding back and saying that there is no God and no love that can get you out of your condition of which you complain so much, when by the exercise of a little reason and will, you may be on the right track to salvation. Of course I don’t know just what this may lead to, but I have determined to follow it to a conclusion, and you will be a big fool if you don’t go with me.
Mr. Harvey said:
Taggart, you were a pretty level-headed man when on earth, and required to have things proved to you, and were really a stubborn man as I know, and what you say impresses me; but you will have to show me what you mean by this experiment. You have not told me what you mean, and of course, until you do, I can’t follow you.
Mr. Taggart says:
George, it is a very simple thing. Mackay and I told our friend that we did not believe in God or in his love or in any saviour, and he said; you need not, to do what I want you to try. He said, while there is a God and His love which is the only thing that can save you from sin and make you happy men, yet that God does not force that love on you or make you believe in Him; and only when you are willing to receive that love of your own volition will it come to you. So you see he said it all depends upon your own will, whether you will have that love and the happiness which flows from it or not, and if you will only will that you may believe in God if there be one, and that you may receive that love if such there be, then if you will, will this and say to God, if there be one, that you will that this love shall come into your heart and that this belief shall come into your mind, and repeat this with all earnestness and will, you will find that after a little while, this belief will come to you, and this love will come into your heart. So Mackay and I are desiring to try anything to get out of our condition, and believing that our friend would not intentionally deceive us, promised to say these things, and in that way pray to a God that we did not believe in; and we have continued to repeat these thoughts ever since; and I must confess to you that some strange change or sensation has come to me. What it is, I don’t just know, but it is there; and I am determined to continue in this qualified prayer, until I know one way or the other what the result will be. So you see, George, if it does no good, it can do no harm, and if you have desire enough to get out of your condition, you will try the experiment.
Mr. Harvey says:
Well Taggart, there may be something in what you say and I am willing to go with you; for as you say, if it does no good, it can do no harm. So let me hear again what I am to say and I will commence.
Then Mr. Taggart repeated the prayer and they left.
You are too wonderful in your way of getting the attention of spirits who are in darkness to turn their thoughts to things that may help them. And I am so glad that you are helping these spirits, even though you did let Mr. Harvey write. But who knows, maybe such interferences are intended for some good purposes.
So my darling, I love you with all my heart and soul, and must stop writing.
Yes, I will, and will try to talk to him sometime when the proper occasion comes.
So goodnight, my own darling Ned.
Note: References message from Harvey (PJE19150112B).